Talk: Randionel Saillune

I'm not that sure about the full name business. I mean, he have always appeared as Randy, even in the official guides, and that's where he also appears as ランディオネ randione (without the "l", that would be ランディオネル randioneru). He probably has Saillune attached to his name, but we don't really know how and where (he could easily be Randy something-here Saillune, or something like that, as everybody else from his family), but Randionel Saillune isn't his name, or at least, not a known official name, so I think the article name should be changed, or at least, redirected to a Randy article (and the same goes for Alfred Saillune). --Shansito 21:49, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Quoting novel 4, page 144:

"Hmm," I said distantly. "That leaves one last person." I turned and locked eyes with Amelia. "I know there was once a guy named Randy. If I remember correctly, he got on really well with Christopher, am I right?"

Amelia blinked, then nodded. "Well... yes. Except I wouldn't say he and Christopher got along well, they just managed to tolerate each other." She put her hands on her hips. "Miss Lina, I didn't know you knew Uncle Randionel."

So novel 4 really had this name in it. It might not be a correct romanization, but that's the only official translation we have at the moment. About full names, I support putting a note to Randy's and Alfred's articles saying that this is most likely not their real full names, as the "Ul Brog/Wil Tesla/El Di" part is missing, and creating redirects for the short name versions. --Pip25 08:41, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Ok then, if it's in TokyoPop version, most people would recognize it, so then it could be an acceptable romanization (or at least, a known one). On other topic, I'm not so sure if Randy is dead or not. In the anime it more or less state that (with that final scene of him), but I don't entirely know what happened in the novel. I'm trying to translate that SP chapter (the 1st one, "Prince of Saillune"), and we'll see if it clearly says it or not (the same goes with his appearance in the SP manga, he doesn't die there) --Shansito 11:32, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Line of Succession

OK, so I've heard that the author mentioned that Randionel is third in line to the throne, BUT if he's the youngest brother then he's actually the sixth (with Phil first, followed by Gracia, Amelia, Christopher, Alfred, and finally Randionel), never mind that it's a fictional world, because on the Booley page, it's mentioned that Booley originally targeted Gracia since she's the next in line to the throne. Also, in the Slayers NEXT anime episode 8, Lina said that Amelia, as the Crown Princess now that Phil is "dead", might also be a target of the assassins (Gracia seemed to have been forgotten since she's outta sight, outta mind XD). --Aislingyngaio 02:17, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

That line of succession in Saillune is one giant mess, but on thing is for sure: Christopher is second in line for the throne, so Randy is probably the third. (The former was an important plot point during the Saillune arc in NEXT and the 4th novel.) This seems to suggest that the heir is always the oldest member of the royal family - so Booley's page and the translation of the 8th episode of NEXT is likely wrong.--Pip25 06:19, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Hmm... so what you're saying is that it's determined by year of birth? :D So what happens when a king has a young child that's even younger than the eldest grandchild? Hypothetically speaking, of course XD--Aislingyngaio 15:49, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

No idea. Really. :) Kanzaka (and the anime staff) made this so confusing that I don't even want to make a hypothetical guess. ;) --Pip25 17:20, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

In novel four, Lina refers to Randy as the Third Royal Successor, and unless there was a translation error, that implies he is/was third in line for the throne. The only way that would be possible, and the only way that Christopher could be second in line for that matter, would be if Amelia and Gracia weren't allowed to inherit the throne. That implies that girls can't inherit the Saillune throne. Gender makes more sense than age since most royal families, including the Japanese imperial family, historically didn't let girls inherit the throne. I've never heard of any royal succession being based on age (usually if the heir was too young they'd give them a regent to rule in their place until they were old enough).

In novel eight, however Lina comments "If [Amelia] accidentally became queen someday, [Saillune] would become a scary place" (Pg. 176). While I'm not sure what accidentally means here, it implies that girls can inherit the throne in Saillune, which would make it impossible for Christopher to be the next in line after Phil.

My guess is this is another example of Kanzaka contradicting himself, possibly because he's not entirely sure himself. Catgirl the Crazy 19:48, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, it indeed smells like a contradiction. It isn't true however that no "oldest-first" succession exits: See Agnatic seniority on Wikipedia. This was also the system employed by us Hungarians back in our nomadic days. :) (Although only men were allowed to be monarchs.) Anyway, in novel 4 page 32, they refer to Christopher as the Second Successor as well. --Pip25 16:52, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

On second thought, perhaps it isn't so contradicting. If we think about it, regardless of the succession system used, Amelia and Gracia are the only ones who can inherit the throne after novel 4: Randy and Alfred are dead, and Christopher surrendered his right. So if Naga doesn't return to Saillune (she does, but Lina did not know that during novel 8) then there would be no one but Amelia to take the throne after Phil. --Pip25 17:06, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Well, yes, but at the time of his death, Randy would still be fourth in line even if females can't ascend the Saillune throne, since there's Alfred. And he definitely didn't and wouldn't give up his right of succession.

Also, you have to consider that in a male-heir-only system, the throne still won't go to Gracia or Amelia. Instead the kingdom will simply have to trace back to the other male descendents of Eldoran's father or ancestors etc. What complications :D--aislingyngaio 20:13, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Yes, because of this is why I think that for the story to make sense,

1. The oldest-first system needs to be used, and
2. Female descendants must also have a right to the throne.

There is nothing in the story itself that contradicts this, only in the interviews did Kanzaka contradict himself by saying that Amelia and Naga cannot inherit the throne (another time he said that they can). Sadly, he has the tendency to not think things over too much when answering questions during such occasions - see the whole issue around white magic, for instance. :/--Pip25 21:05, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

An incredibly late edit, if anyone's still interested: the English translation of the NEXT episode is simply wrong. Lina does not call Amelia the crown princess after Phil's supposed death, but the "second princess" (the first being Naga). So she simply says that her appearance would likely be a nuisance to those wanting the throne for themselves, but she does not imply that Amelia would be next in line for the throne (since that person is Christopher, as he tells Lina himself earlier in the same episode). Pip25 (talk) 22:09, 23 December 2020 (UTC)